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 Post subject: Question about opacity
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:07 am 
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Folks,

I want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious.

Let's say I have a few images layered together, and I want to control the opacity of a layer _on top_ of a few layers. If I add a Make Transparent operator, it seems to affect _all_ layers of the image. How does one control the opacity of a single layer?

Is there any way to easily constrain effects to work on specific layers, or do they always work on everything?

Thanks for the help.

dB


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:33 am 
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The Head Cheese
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I'm definitely considering adding an opacity slider to the added images options in a future, free-upgrade version, but meanwhile, there are several different ways to do what you want.

The easiest way might be to simply drop your image into Create (think Stone Studio - a complete set of graphic processing and page layout and web production tools), set the transparency as desired (Info -> Object, "Dissolve" slider, and drag that image as TIFF from the Image Well into iMaginator (with option key down to "Add" as opposed to "replace")


Effects affect the output of the previous effects - therefore, what I think you want to do, is use one of the 16 different Blend Effects you can add to overlay a semi-transparent image:

Type "Blend" in the search field - you'll see many different blend effects.

Choose one, then drag your overlay image into the small Image Well in the Effects Options area. Additionally, click "Options" to set things like whether the overlay image is scaled to fit or not , and an exact offset (or just drag the image to set the offset).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:13 am 
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Andrew,

So what if I want to blend an image with an existing image in the active comp window? As far as I can tell, choosing the options for the blend lets me select an image from disk for the blend operation, but does not give me the choice to blend _against_ the existing layer stack (taking into consideration any effects already applied). Blending effects seem to affect everything in the stack, not individual layers.

Again, if I'm missing something please tell me.

Thanks for the quick reply,

dB


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:57 pm 
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The Head Cheese
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Well, you can always "freeze" a stack by dragging it out as a TIFF into a new iMaginator window and blend against that.

I'd play with the re-ordering of effects to see if it gives you what you want.

A good example is Text - if it's on top, it's rendered plain, but if it's under, say a Bump Distortion, then it gets squashed and stretched too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:00 pm 
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Location: Metro Chicago, Illinois
Hi,

I enjoy this discussion. To show how some of this can be done in Create, I've made a screen movie and uploaded that to my dot mac account. The movie is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/russconte/mask.mov

The movie is 10 MB in size. Hopefully it will address some of the questions about layers, transparency, and combining them that are being asked here. It's less than four minutes.

I hope this helps.

Russ Conte


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Hi,

Oops, I gave the URL to the movie itself, which is OK, but I made a web page of the movie using Create (as can be seen at the bottom of the page), and the real URL is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/russconte/mask.html

My apologies for the error.

Russ Conte


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:36 am 
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Russ,

I really appreciate your taking the time to make the movie and explain how to do what I'm asking about...

In another application. :?

Imaginator: $49

Ability to specificy the opacity of a layer: $149

The smile on my face: priceless. :D

I've had _so much_ fun here, but alas, all good things must truly come to an end.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:49 am 
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Of course you can do it simply in iMaginator too.
- add top image
- add transparency effect
- add Source Atop effect - and drag in the background image

All in iMaginator.

I'll let the others describe your manners for you. My guess, you troll for others.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:28 pm 
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My best guess is that the person posing as a reviewer is, in fact, quite different, and not David Biedny at all. Several of the comments that he or she has written have been very unprofessional and not constructive. A true professional may well disagree, but the tone and attitude remains respectful. I don't read respect in a number of the comments directed at many of us on these boards. I will no longer respond to any more posts by this person. I don't need any more evidence, and I will not waste any of my time responding to that person's posts.

The proof, of course, will be in the review. If the review appears with David's name, the text of the review will speak for itself. But my money is on the fact that no review with his name will appear that conveys the tone of comments that the reviewer wrote on these boards. Simply put, David's published writing is far more professional than the posts on these boards with his name on them.

I feel most sorry for David, that someone is using his name and reputation without his knowledge or permission. Maybe someone should tell him. I wonder what he'd do in response?

Russ Conte


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:21 pm 
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Location: Kansas City
That's a good point, Russ.

So I sent the following email to The Night Owl, MacAddict, and Attention Photoshoppers. He's associated with all three sites/podcasts/magazines.

"Maybe someone could help with this query.

This poster turned up on the Stone Forums about a week or so ago. The poster says they are David Biedny. Well, they could be anybody - the world doesn't know you're a dog on the internet.

http://www.stone.com/stoneforum/viewtopic.php?t=506

http://www.stone.com/stoneforum/viewtopic.php?t=498

I'll be disappointed if it's him. Why would someone of such stature in the Mac community cause a hard time for a Mac developer and Mac users and risk alienating them from sites/podcasts such as The Night Owl (especially since David Biedny and Andrew Stone have both appeared on the same podcast) , magazines such as MacAddict, or Attention Photoshoppers?

Either way, it could make an interesting article/podcast. If it isn't him, what can you do to protect your name from incidents such as these? If it is him, what would posses someone of such stature to barge into a forum and troll?

Thanks for the help,
Ron Bishop"

Maybe we'll find out...the truth is out there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:45 pm 
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Excellent response, very well written. I would add that I am the current President of the Chicago Macintosh User's Group, known as The Rest of Us. So if it is David (which I very seriously doubt), not only will he alienate the online and print communities you listed, but a good number of the user community as well. While I will not bad mouth anyone, if it does turn out to be him, I will most certainly not invite him to any Mac functions that I'm working on, and if I am asked, I will recommend others to speak/write/review long before him. In fact, if it does turn out to be him and I have my vote, I would not invite him to any Mac function/publication/podcast/event/MUG ever again. Based on what we already have on these boards, it's not worth the risk.

However, as I wrote before, my money is that it is not him, and I will not feed the trolls, and the real person will continue to write and speak and contribute to the larger Mac community to the benefit of us all.

Thanks again for a very good and professional response. It shows once again the quality of the Stone community, and I am very grateful to be a part of this group. Keep up the great work everyone!

Russ Conte


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:48 am 
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Posts: 11
Folks,

Apparently, being opinionated is something which continues to make my life dynamic and sometimes difficult.

When I first visited this forum, and read some of the messages, it seemed that this was a fairly insular group, given that the overall tone was very positive about anything and everything that Andrew does, and honestly, there's nothing wrong with that (you're all here and participating because you like the products, that's fine). With one exception: as a reviewer, it's my job to figure out what's good AND bad about a product. This is my reputation as a reviewer, and it's gotten me in trouble at times over the years, in that most companies absolutely hate to read anything negative about their products. If you don't believe me, take a look at my review of the iBoom hardware for the iPod in the July issue of MacAddict (it's online at the MacAddict site). To say that this freaked out the manufacturer would be an understatement. It's easy to find out what's good about a product - the developer will always tell you that right up front. Trying to find out what's not so hot about a product, that's the real work. It takes effort, time spent with the product, a critical eye and some degree of objectivity.

My original post asked about some comparisons between LiveQuartz and Imaginator, and the responses were are HIGHLY critical of LiveQuartz (which I don't think is any great software achievement, BTW, but is IS free) and totally supportive of Imaginator. Daddydoodaa was fairly critical of my original post, and at the end of his lengthy response, suggested I buy Imaginator.

Now, I have to say, I'm not shocked that the responses were so totally positive, as Andrew is clearly someone who fosters strong loyalty in his users. I admire this, truly, it's something difficult for a small developer to accomplish.

That said, I responded by questioning some of the responses to that original post. And I did something I knew would make me less than popular, by suggesting that if Elements had Core Image support, that Imaginator might be a less attractive choice. That did not go over well with with you guys. I mean, go back and look at some of the responses - daddydoodaa suggested the "American way", "Why buy one when you can have two for twice the price", and then admitted that he'd never even seen Elements. Again, Andrew's customers were backing him up and essentially dismissing any critical comments about Imaginator, and once I qualified my statements (somewhat strongly, I admit), Daddydoodaa proceeded to suggest that I'm a Dilbert cartoon character (and Ron, if you are still into trying Elements, go to the Adobe downloads page and look for the "tryout" version).

The most constructive responses were from Russ Conte, who also admitted to not being a graphics pro. Coulda fooled me, his comments were good and right to the point. Joel had some good comments, too, even though I continue to disagree with his statement that he doubts we'll ever see Core Image support in an Adobe product. All in all, the responses seemed to question my _own_ questioning of the issues I feel are less than compelling about Imaginator.

Value is indeed a subjective call, and unlike most reviewers, I always come from the point of, "should I spend my hard-earned money on this product"?, something a lot of reviewers simply discount, because they never have to pay for software. I KNOW that Imaginator is inexpensive, but $49 is still money. It's a year long subscription to the New Yorker, or better yet, Bizarre magazine, so it's not nothing.

Anyone who has listened to my segments on the Mac/Tech Night Owl already knows that my a large part of my trip is about being strongly opinionated, which I attribute to being a native New Yorker, and having worked at this stuff longer than I care to remember. I noticed how happy the folks on this forum were that Imaginator was getting rave reviews, but I for one have issues with those same positive reviews. The MacNN review was almost perfect, and as much as you might like Imaginator, it's pretty far from being perfect.

And then I hit upon the issue of a lack of transparency control for an image layer. Again, Mr. Conte went above and beyond by producing a movie of his technique of using Create to accomplish this simple task. I admit, I was a bit snide in my response, but to be honest, it did indeed make me smile that he used a product that cost 3X Imaginator to do the most basic thing one could do in an imaging program, to control opacity of an individual layer. At this point, I was persona non-grata here, which again, doesn't surprise me. It's like going to church and questioning the nature of God - not a way to win friends in that context.

Not to change the subject, but it seems that political correctness (if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all) is a scourge on the software editorial world. Publications are afraid to criticize products and alienate advertisers. Magazines would rather not review something that is bad, they simply ignore it. Reviewers, who are underpaid and overworked, take a quick glance at a reviewers guide and rehash it for the review (I know this because I've written some of those reviewers guides, and always marvel that reviewers even touch upon the features in the _order_ in which they've been placed in those guides). I have always tried to give coverage to smaller, independent developers, as I feel they are more likely to innovate than the big boys, but that doesn't mean I'll cut them major slack. If their product is less than stellar, I'll say so. I don't hold back, and I haven't held back on this forum, either. I'm not very good at censoring myself. And for those of you who might think that my Elements comments suggest that I'm a friend of Adobe's you might want to look at the last page of the chapter on Calculations in my "Photoshop Channel Chops" book. Adobe is STILL pissed at me about that last paragraph.

I spent some real time working with Imaginator by the time it was all said and done, and while it's a nice attempt to give users access to Core Image routines, I personally feel that it's lacking a lot of things that would make it viable for meaningful production work. That's my opinion, your own mileage may vary. Of all the people in the world, I'm not surprised that this loyal group is less than thrilled by my opinions. There's nothing I can do about that, except to offer a sincere apology that I've offended you. It was not my intent. I was truly trying to educate myself about Imaginator.

And you want to know the saddest part of this? No one even commented on Artmatic. Wow.

Sincerely,

David Biedny


Last edited by dbiedny on Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:12 am 
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Russ,

I noticed your comment:

"In fact, if it does turn out to be him and I have my vote, I would not invite him to any Mac function/publication/podcast/event/MUG ever again. Based on what we already have on these boards, it's not worth the risk. "

You know what's frightening about this? The notion that if someone has a strong opinion that is in opposition to your own, that they should be silenced. That there's a "risk" involved in letting people express themselves honestly. Polarization is a dangerous tendency, and is all too common in the current political climate of our country. It makes me very sad, and more than a little scared.

I've spoken at many, many user group functions, written for many magazines, and have always received extremely positive feedback about the depth of my knowledge, my presentation style, my willingness to entertain even the most basic, sometimes even inane, questions and queries. I try to have an open mind about things, but is anyone truly "objective"?

Just something to think about.

David Biedny


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:12 am 
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David,

I'll respond because I hope I have something positive to contribute. The most recent post was - by far - the best I've read so far from you. I am all FOR criticism. It's the give and take, the friction, that makes the platform continue to grow. Personally, I count on it, and if that is missing, then I'm seriously concerned.

So I wish to clarify something, and if I misrepresented my own point of view, for that I apologize. My concern is not the disagreement. I truly want and value the disagreement, and believe that under all your posts here, there are some real nuggets of good ideas for the product. In fact I'm still trying to sort out some ideas that you wrote about, tie them into OOP to possibly make iMaginator an even better product. If that happens, that will be a wonderful thing.

My concern, and the reason for my comments which I posted last evening, is the way people were treated on these boards. It's not the criticism, it's the way it was done, and those are totally different things. I would tell you to continue to be critical, be opinionated, and rub people the wrong way. In fact, turn up the volume on this type of stuff, and encourage your colleagues in the Mac community to do the same. I am all for that, IF it's done in a way that is respectful. If you read the posts on these boards, you'll see we do the same here. But if this is how people are treated by you when there is no editor, then I am very deeply disappointed at how things are conveyed.

Yes, I really like the Stone suite of products. That's not news. Yes they can be improved. Also not news. I've put in ideas and suggestions, and they've been implemented in the products. Wow! That's never happened to me before with any other Mac products. It's because we continue to share comments and get responses that this suite is one I like so much. It's not just the present, but the future that is so amazing to me about this stuff. We share strong opinions, and that's how this software keeps getting better. I wish more companies were this good and quick to respond.

I would say to keep up the strong opinions and criticism, it's good for the platform. Your opinions and vast experience are an asset to us all. But please treat people better as you convey these opinions, and you will find yourself a far more influential speaker and writer, without having to tone down one bit the strength of the your opinions and criticisms. I hope that you find a balance between being critical and opinionated, which I value, and conveying that in a way that is much more helpful and professional than I read from you on these boards.

I hope this is helpful. Best of luck in your endeavors.

Russ Conte


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 Post subject: Missunderstanding?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:46 am 
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Location: Irmo, SC
Maybe some of the apparent missunderstandings have been due to the fact that the printed (or posted) "word" feels cold and hard. Whereas David may have been offering his comments with a wink and a genuine smile, smilies (or emoticons) can sometimes communicate exactly the opposite: jeering instead of a friendly jab.

I personally have had emotional run-ins with other New Yorkers (David admits to being one) who meant absolutely no harm at all, but wounded a few southerners who feel beaten up by the New Yorker's comments. Some say "honest and objective," others say "cruel and insensitive."

I sincerely hope this has been the case on this forum.

Daddydooda, I consider you a friend on this forum, and as a friend, I'd like to bring your attention to the fact that I thought the Dilbert comparison was a bit over the top. When I saw it, I expected the poster to leave forever or get really nasty. Of course, I did not see the smile on your face to indicate it was a friendly banter and not a genuine insult.

Let's all learn from this and make a true effort from this day forward to make the Stone forums the absolute best and most helpfull and respectfull online community possible.

Thank you,

_________________
Roger
Irmo, SC


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