Stone Design Forums

For a real drawing application Create lacks of advanced operations on path. Without these operations you cannot design any complex outline. To illustrate what I mean I made a little drawing that demonstrates first the new operations with a square and a circle and than I show how easy you can design e.g. a cogwheel.
The result is a single path that you could add any of Create's effects.

cool?!

My other request is to have PDF import with editing capabilities. That would help to exchange files with other applications (Freehand, Illustrator and many more)
For example Intaglio which is a new little $89,- drawing app does that very nice.

In fact I'm hoping since 2002 when I bought Create that it will have advanced operations on paths and PDF import with editing capabilities and so I thought here is maybe the right place to request that once again.

martin

The path operations part would be welcome, although this can be accomplished in part by using the propellar and rose functions.

As to PDFs, you can't edit them - but you are able to import and add to them. You can always use PStill to extract the text and pictures etc.

[quote="Robert Curtis"]The path operations part would be welcome, although this can be accomplished in part by using the propellar and rose functions.

Really, I cannot see any possibility to do any of the above opperations in Create so that you end up with a single closed path, which is absolutely relevant for applying effects and fillings to the created object.

And, of course I know how to import PDFs into Create, the point is about editing capabilities which gives you the possibility to work on e.g. an Illustrator .ai file or any other vector illustartion apps file.


martin

Sorry, I didn't mean to patronise you (and I agree with your points/requests). I was just trying to suggest the method which will get you closest to the desired result.

I agree with Martin. PDF import, to a native, editable Create file, is the most important thing Create is currently missing. It is, to me, a glaring omission.

At this point, Create users like us operate in a little black box. We can give our art away as PDFs, and users of other (lesser) software can open that art and see the pieces.

When it comes to working with other people, we're locked out. When it comes to PDF, Create is useful, but not nearly as useful as it could and should be.

We can't pretend that the rest of the world is going to see the light and switch to Create merely because it's fast and graceful. If we want to play with the rest of the world, we have to be able to edit art created by other software. And the best I can see to do that is to offer conversion of PDFs to Create files.

Sometimes I wonder when people demand features in Create that really only help Adobe/Corel/Macro/MS. Who cares if you can edit those files if you are using those other programs? A blackbox is often important in workflow. Imagine a small team without many resources trying to duplicate everything a monstrous firm can do with unlimited marketing and engineering resources.

If you like Freehand/Illustrator, fine - use it. Use Create for page layout or web authoring with these files.

If you like Create, you can use it in other work flows - and NOW - you can re-edit the PDF made by Create! (see the thread on OOE on what's coming next release).

With all that said, Frank and I have been working on a way to parse PDF - and I hope to get it done in April/May - but here's the way it would work - Use PStill to flatten the PDF/PS to PostScript. Create could then attempt to parse that...

Andrew, I think people ask for features to get the most out of your application. Nobody asks you for features that help Adobe - they will help themselves. Additional features make Create a more powerful and competitive tool, which will attract more customers and give you a little more from the cake and us more fun and convenience using Create so we don't have to switch to other tools we don't like so much but sometimes have the features we need.

That's why I ask for additional operations on paths - which I illustrated - and second for PDF import. This is not pro Adobe but to get away from it.

Please, don't misunderstand us.

martin

Currently the only app (that I know of) that can edit a Illustrator PDF is Illustrator.

File formats are being used as a weapon against alternative software.

From my point of view the only thing someone else needs to be able to do is receive the content of my work in the way I want it seen and not have to pay for some way to read it. PDF, HTML, GIF, TIFF, JPEG and PS/EPS cover those bases.

On the other hand, if you want to edit my work (specially made in Create), then buy a Mac and buy Create. At least I know that someone editing my work is supporting my community.

As for the paths feature, sounds nice, but Stone Design (from what I can tell) is not a cast of thousands (or hundreds). Adobe (which does have thousands of people) can't even take the time to continue making some apps for Macs (but can for Solaris which proportionally is the same market share to the Mac OS that the Mac OS is to Windows).

I wouldn't expect Create to be able to import Illustrator PDFs and edit them. By the time it is implemented (say with the current CS format), Adobe would have changed their format a few more times to make people continue to upgrade.

I'm happy that PDFs I make in Create can be edited by Create. That seems like a much more important feature to my workflow.

Apps that can edit PDF are: Freehand, Canvas, Intaglio ($89 from Purgatoy Design), Expression3 ($149,- from Creaturehouse) and there are surely more.
And as far as I know the last 2 mentioned are from very small companies like Stone Design.

You are happy if you don't need any additional features, but this thread is about suggestions concerning Create and so I suggest some features.


Concerning the paths feature, as long as I don't have that feature in Create I have to use other programs and in order to use the result in Create I have to import it. And than, if I want the imported object look like a Create object ( lets say with a neon outline) I need import with editing capabilities.

It is very easy.

I really don't get why you are so alarmed and want to blame me for what Adobe or any other big company does. I bought Create Studio as well as Tiffany and many other apps from small software houses and I just want to support the development of Create.

peace,
martin

I've never had any luck with Freehand before, so from what I can tell, that is out. I've never used Canvas, so I can't check that. I just downloaded Intaglio and it couldn't deal with PDFs from Illustrator any better than Create. And I'm not even sure what Expression3 is from what they show on their site (very poorly presented).



Could you please point out exactly where this happened. I am having a hard time seeing what you are talking about with that.

Are you sure you aren't reading more into my post than is actually there?

I thought I was agreeing with you on the paths feature.

But I still don't see any other program importing Illustrator PDFs and having the same functions that Illustrator does with it's own documents (like say, grouping and ungrouping a few simple objects).

Oh! No wonder I didn't quite get it. It isn't from Creaturehouse, it is from Microsoft.

So which two are the small companies like Stone Design? Last time I checked Microsoft wasn't that small.

I'm happy if nobody is alarmed - I just feel people being alarmed if I I suggest something and people explain in bold letters... but if everybody is fine - I am. Maybe I read too deep into your post - I'm sorry for that.

Concerning my 1. post I say that Intaglio can import Illustrator PDFs.
You have to check in Preferences "Convert PDF for editing during import" than it works fine and Freehand MX does it very well.

Expression is a fantastic vector paint program ( look in the gallery for some examples) that imitates wet paint and all kinds of crayon and other colors but not as usual pixel oriented apps but as I said with vectors. It is really amazing. ( and no, I'm not an employee of CreatureHouse ).

So lets all be friends, and let us (me and everybody who likes that feature) hope for advanced Path operations and PDF import...

martin

Intaglio doesn't seem to work on my system (those preferences are grayed out).

On the other hand, pretty much everything I tried with PDFs made with Create worked as expected. Made a PDF from a collection of objects in Create, brought them back and could edit them just fine (very much like I could with Illustrator PDFs in Illustrator... thanks Andrew and Frank!).

As for Freehand, I'm glad that an application which has been part of two of the biggest power houses in our industry (Aldus and Macromedia/Macromind) still has the resources to keep up with Adobe.



That is good to hear... seeing as that would also make you an employee of Microsoft.

I really didn't know that Creaturehouse has been acquired by MS. A few years ago I helped to localize Expression2 to german. At that time it was in fact a little software company like Stone Design.

Even MS Thought so. This is what I found right now:

A Microsoft spokesperson submitted a brief statement to MacNN: "Microsoft posted a public notice in September 2003 that was in the final stages of an acquisition of Creature House, a small software company based in Hong Kong. Creature House is a privately held company and the terms of the acquisition were not disclosed."

Anyway - that's really a pity

martin

Don't mistake what I'm asking, Andrew.

I want to use Create, and I do, almost every day lately.

However, I have to work with *other* people who don't use Create. Let's say I'm working on some artwork for a musician who has worked with another designer. That other designer has worked up a bunch of artwork for a CD in Illustrator.

I don't use Illustrator, and I don't want to. I don't like it. I think it's a bloated piece of excrement.

However, Illustrator can easily export PDF. If Create could import a PDF as an editable file, I could continue to use the software that I want to use, and be able to work with people using the stuff I don't like.



If I have to buy PStill to make this whole thing work, I would do it. I think that's reasonable.

I don't think it's outrageous to ask (although I'm sure it sounds like a demand -- I know I've been asking for this since I started using Create a while ago) for some support in working with other people who don't use the same software. Yeah, it probably leaves a terrible taste in your mouth, but I think it's doing your software a disservice not to have these capabilities.

And if we have to wait a little while to get that capability, that's fine too. I know I want to feel like what I'm asking for is understood and in the cards for a future release.